ARMY BUILDING: AI initial squadron lists

I started painting my four Imperial Navy Thunderbolts first as I imagined them to be the core planes of my Navy wing. I had originally planned to paint my whole IN wing together but then I realised it would be better to paint up a handful of Ork planes next, and then when they were done I could try the models out in some small games while I got the rest of the planes finished.

So I drew up some basic squadron lists from Tactica Imperialis for my IN and Ork air Waaagh.

Imperial Navy
Thunderbolt, additional weapons load
Thunderbolt
Thunderbolt
Thunderbolt
84 points

Ork air Waaagh
Fighta, additional weapons load
Fighta, additional weapons load
Fighta
Fighta
Fighta-Bommer, additional weapons load
82 points

The Ork aircraft are cheaper than the Imperial aircraft so have five planes to four, have more additional weapon loads and come in two points cheaper overall.

I have no idea how effective any of the wings will be until I get them on the tabletop.

Righto, back to the painting...

ARMY BUILDING: Renegades at Games Day

I have transferred another Warhammer battle report over to my dedicated blog and you can (re)read it here.

Meanwhile, I have been looking at my Chaos Renegade list to see what I want to buy for it down at Games Day. I certainly want to get my paws on a Baneblade, which will be the centrepiece for the army in Apocalypse and Forgeworld scenarios, but most of the core list should be usable in regular 40k games.

My first scan of the list told me that I'd need 72 of the Forgeworld torso conversion kits with the renegade weapons. I already have 20 of these so I'd need a further 52 which would set me back about £90. I would also need at least 3 more assault weapon packs which would be another £27. So that is £117 in total just for the renegade bits.

In order to turn them into full models I'd also require the Cadian plastics. The battleforce sets would give me 40 infantry, 3 heavy weapon teams and a Leman Russ, so two of these would be ideal. That's £100. Then I'd need two more boxes of infantry at £36, two Hellhounds at £50 and two Sentinels at £30.

That comes to £333. Yikes. And that is just for the basic 1500 point army. The forgeworld extras like the Baneblade (£60), rogue psykers (£9), Enforcers (£12), Ogryn berserkers (£55), etched symbols (£8) and vehicle crew (£36 for four vehicles) would push the total up over £500.

No, there's no way I can afford to drop that sort of cash all in one go. Hell, there's no way I could even carry that much stuff!

So my idea is to buy just enough stuff to complete a combat patrol force, along with the Baneblade (because it will be brand new) and the Apocalypse stuff. At least I'll be able to start playing games when I have this portion painted. I'll just buy the Forgeworld only stuff for the renegades and then buy the extra Cadian bits at my local store later.

So, here is my Chaos Renegade Militia combat patrol army.

Infantry platoon
Junior Officer 2 flamer
Infantry squad lascannon, plasma gun
Infantry squad lascannon, plasma gun

Fire Support w/ 3 autocannon

Sentinel w/ autocannon

Sanctioned psyker (just because I had the points spare)

So, I'll pick up the following at Games Day:

• 10 more torsos and renegade weapons
• Sanctioned psyker

Adding these to the stuff I already have and then buying the Cadian extras I should be well on my way. It just means I have to spend around £200 at Games Day.

OPINION: Optimizing army lists, part two

In my last post I explained the design philosophy behind optimizing units and army lists, using the six man las/plas squad as an example. I stated that it's strengths were:

• Small squad size maximises the number of special and heavy weapons across the army
• Even squad size helps with victory points and scoring status
• Lascannon has good range, high strength, low armour penetration
• Plasma gun matches lascannon well
• Good redundancy if similar squads are also selected

It did however have some weaknesses:

• Poor in combat
• Fragile
• Slow
• Cannot adapt to other battlefield roles
  
• Encourages a rock/paper/scissors mentality in 40k

My plan was to utilise a different design philosophy to put together my Blood Angels army. Instead of optimizing each unit to perform one narrow range of tasks, I would expect each unit to contribute something to a wide range of tasks. Here are the tasks I identified as being required of each unit:

• Good mobility (at least 12" per turn)
• Tough target busting firepower (vehicles, characters, monstrous creatures)
• Infantry killing firepower
• Ability to threaten hordes in close combat
• Ability to threaten tough targets in close combat (vehicles, characters, monstrous creatures)
• Decent scoring potential

With just this one change a wide range of units swap places in the pecking order for army list choices. Take the Land Raider for example. This would be rarely taken in an optimized list because it has a confused battlefield role. It can carry 10 models but if it does so it would be expected to move it's full 12" every turn. That means it cannot shoot it's twin-linked lascannons. In an optimized list you would take a Predator annihilator (with three lascannons) if you wanted to shoot, or a Rhino, Drop Pod or Land Raider Crusader if you wanted to assault. In my all-rounder list the Land Raider would be a good choice. It can shoot if required, it can assault if needed, it has good mobility and it is a scoring unit.

So if a six man las/plas squad is the pinnacle of optimized unit design for a Tactical squad then what would it look like when chosen from an all rounder viewpoint? To begin with it would need to have more members, to help it be able to capture objectives and preserve it's scoring status. I would recommend the full ten marines so that you have the in game flexibility of using combat squads (splitting the squad into two five men squads). Ten marines also make more use of the carrying capacity of the Rhino you will want to buy for the squad. The transport is needed to provide mobility to the unit. This will help it to advance upon enemy units and capture objectives. A Razorback is another useful transport option. It can only be used if the unit stays at six models but it does carry a twin-linked heavy weapon. A Drop Pod would give the unit an alternative type of mobility.

So, we have now two of our tasks accounted for. The squad comes with built in infantry killing firepower with it's bolt guns. They can use these dismounted and at range, up to 24" or when leaping out of their Rhino at up to 12." This could be augmented with a special weapon such as a flamer or plasma gun. A plasma gun could also help out with shooting at tough targets. Melta guns would also work. I would also take a missile launcher for the squad. This weapon is usually overlooked in favour of the lascannon, but it is perfect for an all rounder list. It's krak missiles can threaten tough targets while the frag missiles can help with hordes.

The large squad size helps in close combat against hordes, but the squad's main killing power will come from it's sergeant. The obvious choice of weapon for him is a powerfist. This works well against hordes but is perfect for pulling down tough targets.

This philosophy has an added benefit in that it keeps redundancy in the army list without having to duplicate unit choices (often referred to as cookie-cutter lists). Because each unit can perform a wide range of tasks it is very difficult for the enemy to cripple your army in a certain area. In an optimized list, for example, you may have four las/plas squads to act as your vehicle killing power. A canny opponent with a mechanised Tau list may identify those squads as his priority targets and go all-out to destroy them. That would leave the rest of the optimized player's list to take out the opponent's vehicles; units that are optimized for close combat, mobility or other tasks.

To recap, then, we have a ten man squad with a veteran sergeant with a powerfist, a plasma gun and a missile launcher. The squad is mounted in a rhino. This is a squad that can fulfill a very wide range of battlefield roles.

An alternative would be a six man Tactical squad in a Razorback. You lose the heavy weapon in the squad but you get a twin-linked one on the vehicle instead. The squad is a bit smaller, but it is a bit cheaper. It can still achieve a lot of in-game tasks.

All-rounder lists help to stop the list from being extremely boring, which many optimized lists are. Instead of this:

• Six man las/plas
• Six man las/plas
• Six man las/plas

You get this:

• 10 man squad, vet sergeant with Powerfist, flamer, missile launcher, mounted in Rhino
• 8 man squad, vet sergeant with Powerfist, plasma gun, missile launcher, mounted in Drop Pod
• 6 man squad, vet sergeant with power weapon, melta gun, Razorback with twin-linked heavy bolters

I know which one I would prefer to play with and against.

The key to playing an all rounder army list is in assessing your opponents army before the game and coming up with a plan to defeat it. This can be a challenge, but surely this has to be better than coming to the table with an army that can only be played in one way as optimized lists often do? Once you have decided how your enemy will approach his game, your list has the flexibility to exploit his weaknesses.

Say your opponent has an Imperial Guard gunline army. You can mount up all your units and use your mobility to engage them in close combat and short range firefights. Against a Tyranid assault force you can split your squads into combat squads to utilise their firepower and stand off with the vehicles, using them to shoot, corral and stall enemy attacks. In every game you play, you will have options. Your games should be more enjoyable, both for you and your opponent.

OPINION: Optimizing army lists

I've been posting a lot about army lists lately. I've just settled upon a 1500 point Chaos Renegade list that can also be used as a Chaos Renegade Militia army. Now I am poring over the new Blood Angels codex. They will be my main army in the current tournament season. I want to try something different with my Blood Angels army. The best way to illustrate why this army will be different is to discuss the traditional way that armies are built; for optimization. In fact the principle of optimization can be shown with just one unit; the las/plas squad.

The las/plas squad
This squad is a staple of Marine armies. I have used them in my Chaos Undivided list and have encountered many of them in competitive games. The set-up is always the same, consisting of six Marines; four have boltguns, one has a lascannon and another has a plasma gun. Why is this squad so prevalent?

Why six marines?
It is because the majority of competitive players try to optimize their units so that they fulfill their role as efficiently as possible. The las/plas squad is designed for shooting. It is six men strong because shooting squads benefit from having fewer numbers. A disproportionate amount of damage in 40k comes from a small number of models. In shooting squads this damage is largely generated by heavy and special weapons. By picking smaller squads a player can have more of them and therefore cram in more of those crucial special and heavy weapons. Of course, five men is the smallest possible unit size, but that sixth man actually helps to preserve victory points. Even numbered units are always preferable to odd numbered units because it takes an extra casualty to drop the unit below half strength and claim half victory points. It also helps to retain their scoring status and to protect the special and heavy weapons. Six is the optimal number of marines in a shooting squad.

Why lascannon and plasma gun?
The lascannon is the primary gun here. It has obvious strengths; long range, high strength and low armour penetration. It may be expensive but it can crack the toughest armoured vehicles and take on tooled up daemon-princes, carnifexes and hive tyrants and terminators. It can also instantly kill most multiple wound characters and punch through power armour effortlessly. Most army lists also discount lascannon in troops choices because GW believe that troops choices fufill multiple battlefield roles. If you have to move then you can't use the heavy weapon, and the squad could be used in a close combat capacity. However, because the las/plas squad is being optimized for shooting the cheaper weapon price is a real bonus for canny players.

The plasma gun is chosen for synergy. None of the other special weapons match the lascannon as well. The plasma gun has high strength, low armour penetration and a decent range. It can threaten pretty much all of the same targets as the lascannon can. In addition, it is especially good against marines. Approximately 60% of all armies are MEQ's (Marine EQuivalents) so it makes sense to pick weapons that can attack them well.

When you look at all of this together, the six marine las/plas squad makes for a formidable shooting unit.

Weaknesses
The las/plas squad does have some weaknesses, though. Because it is so optimized for one task, it cannot do any others very well. It is vulnerable in combat. Although the raw stats for marines are good, they will be defeated by any half-decent close combat squad. They are also somewhat fragile. Again, marine stats are good, but just four casualties make the unit non-scoring and bags their opponent half of their victory points. Just two more kills wipes out the squad. This makes them somewhat suspect when it comes to claiming objectives with them. Objectives are problematic for movement reasons, too. The las/plas squad only moves 6" per turn and loses lots of firepower if it does so. If the objective is even a moderate distance away the las/plas squad will have to make tough choices about whether to move or fire.

There is a wider weakness, too. If a player employs the optimization method of army design across their whole army, they will have a range of units each built for their specific role. But what happens if a savvy opponent targets all units which fulfill that one role? The optimizing player could then simply not be able to compete in some parts of the game. Optimizing means that there will always be an element of having all your eggs in one basket, as you mono-task each unit in your army. What happens when a marine player is playing a take and hold scenario and he loses his two assault units in the first turn. Will his four las/plas squads be able to storm into the assault and dislodge the enemy from the objective? Unlikely. It's not what they are designed for.

I wouldn't do that, you might say. I would just do what each unit is good at and try to damage the enemy army so that it can't contest the objective. But what happens when the enemy army is simply better at doing what you are trying to do? A static gunline marine list might be powerful but it would probably lose against a static imperial guard list. This is sometimes called the rock/paper/scissors dilemma of army building in 40k. If all players optimize their lists in the ways outlined above, it is relatively easy to compare the two lists before the game and predict the winner. A Tyranid genestealer horde will have the advantage against a close combat marine army but will really struggle against a mechanized Eldar list. Barring freaky dice rolls or excellent/terrible players, the outcome will be a formality. This is not a good thing.

Phew! This has grown into a massive post, much longer than I first envisioned. I'll post part two tomorrow when I outline the alternative to list optimization, using my Blood Angels.

ARMY LIST: Chaos Renegade Militia wrap up

After a few days wait to see if any further advice would be forthcoming it is time to take another look at my Chaos Renegade Militia army list threads.

I finally got some responses on the Warhammer Forum. It was bad advice. They advised me to drop the lascannons, use carapace armour and load up my vehicles with Hunter Killer missiles. No thanks.

Nobody had added anything to the discussion on Dakka Dakka. Funnily enough a lot of other IG threads have sprung up there. It's nice to be in fashion.

There was nothing more to come from Warseer, either.

So I reckon my second version of the list is the one I will go with. As well as being a fairly solid list in itself, it will be easy to build upon with Forgeworld units.

Now I just have to put my Blood Angel list together.

ARMY LIST: Chaos Renegade Militia mirror list, part two

I posted the first draft of my list on three forums to try and get feedback. The advice from Dakka Dakka was blunt. Flagg07 wrote:

1) Plasma with your LC squads
2) Mixing specials in the same squad is not good for IG. Specialise the PHQ to do a job.
3) Optimize the vets to 5 men and 3 Plasmas with a bolter if you like.
4) Heavy stubbers for your Hell Hounds
5) Drop a Sentinel to get points to make fixes
6) Add some indirect to get those baddies that fire on you from behind cover
7) Doctrines are your friend.

Then epidemicHEART suggested:

Also, I would save points by dropping your heavy weapons platoon, and putting those 2 fire support squads as detachments for your command squad.

Over on the Warhammer Forum I got 64 views but no replies. I guess that means the list is so good that it can't be improved! Or maybe it's just so bad that it can't be rescued.

I got most replies on Warseer. Steel Legion got back to me first with this:

I am never a fan of leaving a squad without a special weapon personally, even something like a melta (keeping the AT theme of the squad) in case a tank gets within 18" where the melta is as effective as the lascannon pretty much, or 12" where its ace (assuming you move towards them of course with the melta). For one anti tank I would consider missiles or lascannons, as S7 doesn't always cut it all the time, just a suggestion though, also you seem to be low on Ld, perhaps a standard bearer to keep the men in check?

Of course I had included a veteran with a standard but I forgot to type it up onto the army list. Monsterzonk countered part of the last post with this:

Meltaguns only have a range of 12", getting really mean at 6"...
Personally I'm not a fan of lascannons in Infantry Squads. I mean, if you shoot a tank, you'll waste 9 lasgun shots. I know, lasguns are not good, but in masses they do hurt. A 10 man squad with a lascannon costs 75 points (not too sure, don't have the Codex at hand). So you pay 75 points for one (!) S9 AP2 shot that hits on a 4+??? Use autocannons or missile launchers instead, as those do have anti-infantry potential, which compliments the 9 lasguns. IMO heavy bolters are best for Infantry Squads, even better if coupled with a flamer or plasmagun.
If you really want lascannons, get them in an Anti-Tank Squad or give one to your Veterans, as they have BS4 and therefore good chances to hit.
In short:

Change the Infantry Squads' lascannons into heavy bolters.
Change the Heavy Weapons Platoon's autocannons into lascannons.
Maybe try and get some special weapons for the Infantry Squads.

My response was:

In my experience the IG tanks kill infantry and the infantry kill tanks.

I'm not too worried about losing the lasguns while I have 2 ordnance, 2 inferno cannon, 8 heavy bolters and all the autocannon then the 4 command squads if needed. The problem with putting all the lascannons in the anti tank squads is that I lose all the ablative wounds. At the moment you have to kill 10 guardsmen to knock out one lascannon. In the anti tank squads you can knock out three lascannons with just six kills.

It's 85 pts for the lascannon infantry squads...

Finally Outlaw289 replied:

Ah, the age old "to support squad or not to support squad" question. I'll say, in my experience, having an Anti-tank lascannon support squad works. It will usually do it's job at first (and cheaper!), and even if it does get knocked out (which sometimes takes a while due to being in cover, far away, etc), there are plenty of battle cannons (less useful against vehicles but good against big things like Land Raiders ) and rocket launchers where those lascannons came from (that you can buy because of you bought three lascannons for less points than you would otherwise).

Take lascannon support squads and then rocket launchers/Autocannnons in Infantry Squads for medium/light (respectively) anti-tank work.

I've taken on board some of the advice and revised my list accordingly. Here is the second draft.

HQ
Junior Officer w/ bolt pistol, 2 melta, vet w/ standard
Sentinel w/ lascannon
Fire Support w/ 3 autocannon
Fire Support w/ 3 autocannon

Elites
5 Veterans Srg w/ boltgun, 3 plasma guns

Troops
Infantry platoon 1
Junior Officer 2 flamer
Infantry squad lascannon, plasma gun
Infantry squad lascannon, plasma gun

Infantry platoon 2
Junior Officer 2 flamer
Infantry squad lascannon, plasma gun
Infantry squad lascannon, plasma gun

Fast Attack
Hellhound extra armour, heavy stubber
Hellhound extra armour
Sentinel w/ autocannon

Heavy Support
Leman Russ, heavy bolters all round, extra armour, searchlight
Leman Russ, heavy bolters all round, extra armour

So that's 7 autocannon, 8 heavy bolters, 5 lascannon, 2 battle cannon, 2 inferno cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 2 meltaguns, 4 flamers, 7 plasma guns

Better?

ARMY LIST: Chaos Renegade Militia 1500 point mirror list

Here's my first draft of a 1500 point Chaos Renegade list which could also be used as a regular Imperial Guard army. I've called this a mirror list because I have two units of pretty much everything. There are a bunch of restrictions on what I can and can't change, but rather than list them all here again I'll just direct you to this post on my blog.

Onto the list:

HQ

• Junior Officer w/ bolt pistol, 1 flamer 1 melta, vet w/ standard
• Sentinel w/ autocannon

Elites

• 6 Veterans Sergeant w/ boltgun, 2 plasma guns

Troops

• Infantry platoon 1
• Junior Officer 1 flamer 1 melta
• Infantry squad lascannon
• Infantry squad lascannon

• Infantry platoon 2
• Junior Officer 1 flamer 1 melta
• Infantry squad lascannon
• Infantry squad lascannon

Fast Attack

• Hellhound extra armour
• Hellhound extra armour
• Sentinel w/ autocannon

Heavy Support

• Leman Russ, heavy bolters all round, extra armour
• Leman Russ, heavy bolters all round, extra armour
• Heavy weapon platoon
• Junior Officer 1 flamer 1 melta
• Fire Support w/ 3 autocannon
• Fire Support w/ 3 autocannon

So that's 8 autocannon, 8 heavy bolters, 4 lascannon, 2 battle cannon, 2 inferno cannon, 4 meltaguns, 4 flamers, 2 plasma guns and 17 scoring units.

I've posted the list on three forums, Warseer, Dakka Dakka and the Warhammer forum. I'll address any comments in later posts.

How would you improve this list?

OPINION: Chaos Renegade Militia army development

So, that Chaos Renegade Militia army list then. Before I leap right in and start buying models for any army I like to have a concept in mind for the army, how it will fight on the battlefield, which models I need to buy and how I will paint them. I thought I'd let you in on this process with the Chaos Renegade Militia as it is more complex than usual and will hopefully give you an insight into just how much (over) analysis I put into this gaming thang.

General concepts

• This is an army I want to be able to play with for a long time. As far as I possibly can I want to make it edition and codex proof. Forgeworld models are expensive and I plan to spend a long time modelling and painting the army. I don't want all that hard work to go to waste because I overemphasise unusual units or formations. I want to choose a wide range of units which are not dependent on special rules, unusual wargear or wacky deployment.
• In order to get most use out of the army I want to be able to play it at tournaments as well as in casual play. Forgeworld army lists aren't allowed in most tournaments so I would like to be able to use the army as a 'straight' Imperial Guard list. I'll basically build the first 1500 points of the army with no 'Forgeworld only' units and then include the Forgeworld goodies as extras later.
• Forgeworld have sculpted some gorgeous Chaos Militia models and I want to include as many of these in my army as possible. That means choosing models not just on their battlefield prowess but including them just because they look good. This will obviously compromise the competitiveness of the army but it is a hit I am willing to take.
• I have painted an Imperial Guard army before and painting unit after unit of infantry gets very boring, very quickly. Therefore, I want to include lots and lots of vehicles in the army.
• I want to include as many 'signature' units of the Militia list as I can, to ensure that my army is representative. This should also help to define it's character and make it distinctive from other Imperial Guard armies. In practical terms this means choosing Priests, Psykers and heavy weapon platoons. Ogryns will be included but because they differ between the IG codex and the Militia list I'll do them as extras.

List building
With all of the above in mind I now have to sit down and write the list. As a guideline I'll use my notes on the elements of a competitive army. To paraphrase, I need to:

• Optimise for escalation (start all models on the board or off the board).
• Emphasise firepower over assault (mobile shooting is best).
• Include mobile objective grabbers.
• Be durable (having redundancy).
• Assume I will be fighting MEQ's and arm myself accordingly.
• Include a pushback unit.
• Include an infiltrating unit.
• Maximise my scoring units.
• Try to fill out the full force organisation chart.

Of course, these are all just goals and it is unlikely I will be able to stick to all of them, especially considering the wider army concepts I outlined earlier. These elements are also generic and not keyed to a specific army. I also have some Imperial Guard specific ideas I'd like to adhere to.

• Command squads are there to provide leadership - not to be in the firing line or to be crammed full of wargear.
• Individually, most IG units are fragile. Their strength comes in numbers so always try to take at least two of each unit.
• Vehicles kill infantry and infantry kill vehicles. Give the infantry tank killing equipment.
• Don't be shy in maxing out on heavy support. IG have little in the way of assault ability so big guns are a necessity.
• Include at least one infantry squad for every 300 points spent.

This is all the stuff that is going round my head before I have even made my first list! I'll have a bit of a think, scratch out a list and maybe post it on a couple of forums to see if it could be improved and then I'll bring it back to lone pilgrim for the official unveiling.

If you have an hints, tips or comments, please get in touch.

OPINION: Elements of a successful competitive army

A while back I wondered if there were common elements to successful competitive armies whatever type and race they were and regardless of how they worked.

For instance, would you consider having a push-back unit to be essential - something cheap and/or durable to force back enemy deployment? Similarly, would you never leave home without an infiltrating unit, just to deny enemy infiltrators? Do you always have some sort of response to indirect weapon fire, or do you always ensure that you have indirect firing of your own? Would you always recommend commanders to purchase a psychic hood if they had access to it?

With the help of the members of the Dakka Dakka forum I came up with this list.

• Optimise for escalation. Build your army either all-infantry (the whole army starting on table) or all mechanised (whole army starting off the table). This stops your force being destroyed piecemeal by heavy infiltrators or deep strikers. On table is preferable as you cannot be hampered by poor reserve rolls, though off table does give you a chance to observe the enemy and blow them away as you arrive.
• Emphasise firepower rather than assault. Shooting units can begin to inflict damage early in the game and can potentially hurt more units, without exposing themselves to too much risk. Mobile firepower is preferable as it can outwit static shooters and keep away from assaulters. Some counter assault is necessary, though. If you rely on assault, then you must have a reliable method of getting there.
• Include several mobile objective grabbers. Objectives are important in most missions now. Be careful, though, as you usually sacrifice firepower for mobility.
• Be durable. Tougher armies can take more damage and are more forgiving than fragile ones. It should be hard for your opponent to significantly reduce your killing power in a single turn. Tough armies could be MEQ’s (T4 3+ save) or have a lot of bodies (Guard), or even be able to hide well (Tau). Eldar Falcons are particularly durable if they select the right wargear. Another way to be resilient is to specialise. If you go all mechanised all of your enemy’s basic guns are useless. Similarly, if you go all infantry all of their anti-tank guns are much less effective.
• Build an anti-MEQ force. 60% or more of your tournament games will be against MEQ’s. (MEQ - Marines or EQuivalent)
• Include a push-back unit to limit enemy deployment. Otherwise you will have to concede ground during deployment or place a valuable unit in harms way.
• Include at least one infiltrating unit to hamper enemy infiltrating. Just one cheap unit can cripple armies that rely heavily on infiltrating.
• Maximize your number of scoring units. Missions are very important due to the victory points they give and only scoring units can achieve the missions.
• Try to fill out the force organisation chart. This allows you to outmanoeuvre the enemy in the deployment phase.

Would you add anything else to the list?